Curse

d4nowar · Aug 13, 2005, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Here's a decent suggestion that wouldn't be hard to implement at all and most likely wouldn't be a problem to anyone.

-An officer can only kick someone from a guild once every 12 hours.

The only reason you would want to kick multiple people is if there was something major happening, and then you'd want your leader to take over, or more than one officer. Generally if you are kicking more than one person out at a time something is seriously wrong, but that isn't important.

This suggestion would prevent one officer from intentionally destroying the guild by kicking every member from the guild for no apparent reason. Sure, situations like this might be rare, and could probably be prevented by knowing and trusting the officer better. But some higher ranked guilds do get sabotaged. This suggestion would simply prevent something like this from happening without making any change that too many people would ever need to notice.

Any suggestions or comments about the idea are welcome, but anything else is for another place.

Kai Nui · Aug 13, 2005, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4nowar

Here's a decent suggestion that wouldn't be hard to implement at all and most likely wouldn't be a problem to anyone.

-An officer can only kick someone from a guild once every 12 hours.

The only reason you would want to kick multiple people is if there was something major happening, and then you'd want your leader to take over, or more than one officer. Generally if you are kicking more than one person out at a time something is seriously wrong, but that isn't important.

This suggestion would prevent one officer from intentionally destroying the guild by kicking every member from the guild for no apparent reason. Sure, situations like this might be rare, and could probably be prevented by knowing and trusting the officer better. But some higher ranked guilds do get sabotaged. This suggestion would simply prevent something like this from happening without making any change that too many people would ever need to notice.

Any suggestions or comments about the idea are welcome, but anything else is for another place.

Or you could write down the names of all the members and officers in case of it happening so that you can invite them all back. But I agree, I think there should also be more limits to officers and maybe the ability to name and make different groupings.

Gs-Cyan Bloodbane · Aug 13, 2005, 08:38 AM // 08:38

welll they do all show up in the guild history. so they can be reinvited

and the officer doesn't have the ability to get rid of other officers if i'm remembering correctly.

but yea a failsafe to keep a massive abuse would be nice. maybe an ability to limit each officers abilities. I personally want all my officers to be able to be able to recruit but only my most senior to be able to boot.

had a couple times that one of my recruiters took it on themselves to boot a couple members that hadn't been on in a little while. meanwhile one of the guys deleted was on a long vacation and had been posted in the forums. the guy din't bother looking before he kicked and no one cuaght it until the guy came back from vacation pissed that he had been kicked.

Ensabah Nur · Aug 13, 2005, 09:17 AM // 09:17

I think I made it real simple for my guilds officers: Myself (leader),my wife(co-lead{well technically the boss LOL}) and The Four Horsemen(My Generals) are the only ones allowed to kick any members for inactivity(we have a set time of 3 weeks AWOL unless notified on our forum or emailed in advance of absence).
For infractions against guild policies we hold a tribunal, where 3 officers/leader(s) weigh the evidence and make a ruling. Penalties for infractions include monetary fine,demotion in guild rank,banishment.
I also try to only promote guildmates to Officer that have proven themselves.
I do understand what ya saying that you'd like a toggle type option to allow/disallow officers kicking powers. I can see where that might come useful, but to do so would also tell that officer you don't trust them and every relationship Real Life and in here is based on trust.

Kai Nui · Aug 13, 2005, 09:46 AM // 09:46

Yeah, good answer. Don't make random people your officers. Only make people officers if you're starting out to recruit or if they've been a member of your guild for a long while and you talk to them on a daily basis and like the person they are.

d4nowar · Aug 13, 2005, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

Yeah, good answer. Don't make random people your officers. Only make people officers if you're starting out to recruit or if they've been a member of your guild for a long while and you talk to them on a daily basis and like the person they are.

While that is a good suggestion that we already practice, we didn't ask for suggestions on how to run a guild. And sometimes you just can't do anything when a person does a complete 180.

Basically, I think the problem is that Officers have too much power. The difference between an in-game officer and an in-game leader are tiny. Leaders have power over officers and some customizing things for the guild, but that is it. Maybe the leader should have the ability to restrict the powers of all officers, or just individuals. This might even be better than my original suggestion because it gives more power to the leader and is even less inhibiting to the players that just don't care.

Ensabah Nur · Aug 13, 2005, 08:28 PM // 20:28

D4, I understand exactly what ya asking for and what you mean. Alas just like in a real life Army/Clan/Guild if you place people in authority over your soldiers and they prove to be disloyal and try to usurp you or ruin you by turning members against you or leading a revolt (I had 2 officers leave and took about 8 members with them, their loss not mine) then that is part of the role and this is after all a role playing game. Be thankful it's only a game and not RL people die in RL coups and revolts. And yes I understand you worked hard to build ya guild, just like I work hard to keep mine active,happy etc. Just think how the British felt when the US had the revolution.

Leader: "Here "Guildmate", I'm gonna make you an officer in our(my) guild but take away everything that seperates you from the members except the ability to recruit new members to make our (my) guild bigger ,better,stronger. No ,no, I don't want you to be able to settle disputes between members just get us new soldiers. Why you ask, well because I don't really trust you and I'm afraid you'd ruin our(my) guild if I let ya have the ability to kick members. Well I'm not so much giving you authority just making you a recruiter yea that's it."

Now do you really think that,that guildmate will even hear/see the end of that, or quit the guild before ya finished?

However, as I stated I fully understand what ya mean about the potential for unscrupulous Officers to ruin your guild by kicking everyone out and saying the leader told them to or w/e. But I reiterate you(as the leader) made them an officer. For what reasons? What caused you to make them an officer?
They earned your trust? Proved themselves worthy? or did ya "just need a few officers?" (I try to avoid the whole, "I just need a few officers, thats what caused my dilemma with the 2 mentioned above) For if a members sticks around/plays often/and devotes a goodly amount of time to the guild then that means they are at the very least interested in the long term. If you make someone an officer but take away thier abilities to hold the office.
A) You send a clear message you don't value & trust them.
B) You start them off in a position of command without even the ability to threaten disciplinary actions.
C) As of this moment there really aren't that many differances between "Members & Officers" and "Officers & Leader". I'm all for more options, options usually always improve gameplay. Customizable ranking/Customizable assignments etc.(Then let the leader decide if he wants to limit the power of certain officers, but the leader shouldn't get upset if that officer decides to leave after the lack of trust on the leaders part)
(I trust my officers to act & follow our policies,if they can't then I discipline them. It's that whole "innocent until proven guilty thing")

But if you can't trust the people you surround yaself to be in command in your absence, then maybe you shouldn't have put them there. On another note I login everyday even if it's just for 5 -10 minutes (it's usually a few to many hours), I go read our guilds forum everyday and try and have good communication and set policies for the whole guild and although I am open to suggestions I've been running my clan/guild for 6 years in over 20 differant games(Some of my members have been with me as long) it is ultimatly my way or the highway on certain aspects/issues.
FYI ,5 of those 8 members that left asked to come back within 2 days. DENIED. Once bitten, twice shy.
BTW I was not in any way attempting to tell you how to run your guild/a guild, just merely pointing out PooPoo Occurs. So, please do not take this as an afront or assault on you or any other guild leaders, we sometimes have to roll with the punches.

d4nowar · Aug 13, 2005, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Oh, I'm not worried about the guild at all (not the leader anyway), as we have some kind of a reputation and a timely demise for DRNK working for us.

I don't think the officers that don't have certain powers would matter if all of the rest of the officers didn't have that same power. So that is probably why I suggested my initial idea first. Maybe global restrictions against all officers would be better. If you were a guild leader that wanted a safer guild you could just set the restrictions before anyone is even in your guild.

Gs-Cyan Bloodbane · Aug 14, 2005, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Yeah but its not so much an issue of trust as it is my guild wants to set up tailored jobs. we want our members to go to specific people if they have problems just not any random officer.

Frankly it has more to do with activity then anything. Some of our members don't have the time to be playing referee all the time. or if they are our gvg leader i don't want people coming to them with problems unless its about gvg.

Ideally I would love to be able to set up differnt classification of officers in game and set up an actual hierchy. ie set up a folder with your GVG officers and give them the power to start gvg battles and no one else. set up folders for Pve and PVp leaders so that your members can tell at a glance who is in charge of what.

Currently my guild has to use our forums to keep that info and as the one thats incharge of it and the members list it can be a pain in the but to update.

emil knight · Aug 14, 2005, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4nowar

Here's a decent suggestion that wouldn't be hard to implement at all and most likely wouldn't be a problem to anyone.

-An officer can only kick someone from a guild once every 12 hours.

The only reason you would want to kick multiple people is if there was something major happening, and then you'd want your leader to take over, or more than one officer. Generally if you are kicking more than one person out at a time something is seriously wrong, but that isn't important.

This suggestion would prevent one officer from intentionally destroying the guild by kicking every member from the guild for no apparent reason. Sure, situations like this might be rare, and could probably be prevented by knowing and trusting the officer better. But some higher ranked guilds do get sabotaged. This suggestion would simply prevent something like this from happening without making any change that too many people would ever need to notice.

Any suggestions or comments about the idea are welcome, but anything else is for another place.

Actually, this would fall along the lines of having more ranks in the guild, a suggestion that has come up many times before.

If we had say, "Senior" and "Junior" officers, you could give the Senior officers the power you suggest. Or simply have a lower rank (below officer) called Recruiter, and allow the Officers to both recruit and boot members while the recruiters could only invite new people.

The God Of Metal · Aug 15, 2005, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by emil knight

If we had say, "Senior" and "Junior" officers, you could give the Senior officers the power you suggest. Or simply have a lower rank (below officer) called Recruiter, and allow the Officers to both recruit and boot members while the recruiters could only invite new people.

I completly agree with this. There should be more Ranks in Guilds so you can give more or less power to certain people. It would make tings much easier.

johnnylange · Aug 15, 2005, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Officers just have way too much power! I heard from someone that some officer from some guild kicked out everyone that wasn't an officer.

Black Forsaken · Aug 15, 2005, 04:41 AM // 04:41

I agree with the rank in guilds post. I don't agree the officers should be rescricted. If you guild is stupid enough to let people come into power that boot everyone or do stuff things like that then that is your guild's fault dont blame it on the officers

PieXags · Aug 15, 2005, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Here's how it should be...

The powers the officers get should be like giving moderators powers on forums. The administrator (guild leader) chooses from a list which powers his officers have.

There should be a window the Guild Leader has with a list of all possible Officer position powers, and he or she should be able to highlight the ones he/she wants his/her officers to have, plain and simple.

quickmonty · Sep 16, 2005, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Though I agree with the idea of different levels (ranks) for officers it looks like we have to work with the current limitations. Before I promote an officer I have to see that this person has the guild's interest at heart. They have to be active and helpful and have sufficient time in the guild. Before I promote someone I will get input from my other officers, and even suggestions as to who they think would be the best candidate.

At least on our web site I can delegate how much power officers have within the web site.